Issue #1,087 | The Business of CAD | 15 March 2021
For the upcoming 40th anniversary of Dassault Systèmes, we offer this interview with Francis Bernard, co-founder of the company. He was interviewed by David Levin, co-founder of LEDAS Group, which develops software for CAD vendors.
Mr Bernard was born in French Indochina (now Vietnam) where his father was a mining engineer. His family returned to France around the time he turned 12. Here is the rest of his story.
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David Levin: What influenced your interest in aerospace engineering?
Francis Bernard: I was fascinated by airplanes. When I was 12-17 years old, I spent most of my free time constructing aircraft models, including one with a radio transmitter that I developed by myself with tube amps, because there were no transistors yet, and then flew them in a park in nearby Paris.
As a young student, I worked very hard to enter Supaero, the top aerospace engineering university in France. At Supaero I had the opportunity to fly as a pilot in private airplanes. And I discovered one of the first computers of this time, the CAB 500, which was as big as a wardrobe but a lot less powerful than pocket calculators that you today buy for $10 in a supermarket.
Levin: Was joining Dassault Aviation accidental?
Bernard: Joining Dassault Aviation was not accidental. Dassault Aviation was very prestigious because of its Mirage fighter jets at the time of the Cold War. The technology there was quite sophisticated and the salary quite attractive.
I had already a pre-employment contract with Dassault Aviation while I was still a student at Supaero, receiving a monthly fee for several years (including during my military service) before joining Dassault Aviation. So I had a legal commitment to join!
Levin: At first glance, your initial specialization in theoretical aerodynamics appears very different from professional software development. How did it happen that you became so quickly involved in a domain that seems new, given your background?
Bernard: When I began with Dassault Aviation in 1967, there were no computers anywhere. It was still the time of paper, pencils, and typewriters. The two first computers, the IBM 1800, were installed by coincidence the same time that I arrived.
We began developing mathematical algorithms to calculate aerodynamic flows along wings and fuselages. We learned how to convert our mathematical language into programming language to deliver air pressure values on aircraft geometry.
Of course, the first fundamental problem was to create the mathematics, then to create a software/data representation of the airplane’s shape, because it was used as input to the aerodynamics computations. Like most engineers in the world at this time (end of the 1960s), we had to learn to experiment with software development on these very early computers.
Levin: There is a serious difference between computational software modules that were the predecessors to Catia, and Catia on the other hand as a universal CAD engine. Does this mean that you had to design a new architecture for CAD?
Bernard: In the beginning, at the end of the 1960s and into the early 1970s, the only way to communicate with a computer -- to create and manipulate data -- was to write software in an alphanumeric language that we entered on punch cards. So, we invented a specific language to create and to store the shape of the airplane in the memory of the computer: wings were ruled surfaces between profiles defined by fifth-degree curves, and fuselages were conics evolving along fifth-degree curves.
We also invented a specific alphanumeric language to exploit the shapes: input for computation of aerodynamics, sections of planes, and cutting-tool motions for numerical-control machines.
Then in the early 1970s we had the first black and white graphics terminals (first the IBM 2250, then the IBM 3250 terminal) together with a new generation of much more powerful computers (the IBM/360, then the IBM/370 mainframe). It opened up the opportunity to convert our alphanumeric language (on decks of punched cards) into a much simpler-to-use language on interactive graphic terminals.
In 1977, I decided, with the support of my management, that it was time to rewrite all our software to handle the conversion. As with the first generation on punched cards, we did all the software development ourselves, of course taking benefit of our experience with the mathematical definitions of the shapes and converting the alphanumeric language into an interactive graphical interface.
At this time (end of 1970s) there were five developers on my team.
Levin: What is common and what is different between the development of an airplane and a CAD system?
Bernard: What is in-common: we learned from the airplane engineers all about the shapes and optimization of the shapes of airplanes. And how to manufacture these shapes.
What is different: airplane engineers develop an airplane according to specific requests (performance, capacity, range, and so on) but we develop software as a tool to help them develop more competitive airplanes at lower prices.
Levin: Aside from Dassault Aviation and Boeing, what was the most significant usage of Catia in terms of new experiences for your team?
Bernard: My first customers, even a few months before the creation of Dassault Systemes in 1981, were Mercedes, BMW, and Honda -- I mean the engineering divisions of these automotive companies. I developed group meetings that involved the three of them, despite them being competitors in the market. I explained and demonstrated Catia to them, and they explained to me the automotive specifics of shape design (body engineering) as well as manufacturing.
As a result, they accepted the offer to evaluate Catia on their sites. My team worked with them to understand and to satisfy their requirements for Catia.
In summary, I implemented as successful a relationship with them as I had with aircraft designers to expand Catia to support the needs of the automotive industry. Similar processes were implemented during the 1980s and 1990s with the industries we support: shipbuilding, equipment, consumer goods, and so on.
This is really a profile of a software developer: create an innovation of value to the customer, by mixing an understanding of each industry segment process with new IT technology.
Levin: Catia is 40 years old and it the oldest CAD software still on the market, and yet it still takes the leadership position. How many more years will it live on?
Bernard: I don’t know, but let me remind you of the history of design:
1. Sketches from antiquity to 19th century (5,000 years): pen and paper, written by individuals for their own purpose; for example, the sketches by Leonardo da Vinci.
2. Drawings from the 19th to the 20th century (150 years): pen and paper, with the standardization of drawing representations acting like a language for large teams to be able to cooperate; this was the design/manufacturing platform for the Industrial Revolution.
3. 2D CAD from 1970 to 1990 (20 years): computer graphics terminals that optimized the performance of 2D drawings; this was the Cadam positioning.
4. 3D from 1970 to 1980 (10 years): computers with alphanumeric languages on punched cards; this allowed the first exact 3D definition on computers.
5. 3D CAD from 1980 to … (?? years): computer graphics terminals that optimize the performance of 3D design; this is the Catia positioning.
6. Next Step: probably the automatic generation and exploitation of 3D shapes based on artificial intelligence, with full optimization through integration of simulation and interaction with any type of constraints.
Each step demonstrates a significant innovation in design, but does not eliminate the previous steps. Sketches, for instance, are still in use.
It is extremely difficult to predict the future in technology. Who in 1990 knew about the Internet and smartphones? Nobody!
Levin: Catia was a revolution in the CAD industry by being the first 3D design system. Do you see the potential for any technology to transform engineering industry as much in the twenty-first century?
Bernard: See my answer above.
Levin: If you could go back to the 1980s, is there anything you would like to change in Catia to make even more successful today?
Bernard: I believe that we did our best in the 1980s, according to the technology of the time. We had graphic terminals in color (the IBM 5080) only in 1985, PCs powerful enough only in 1995, and now the cloud. These developments significantly impacted Catia by opening new opportunities to develop new applications.
Levin: What was the key to the success of Catia: excellent product management? Brilliant software developers and mathematicians? Sales people from IBM?
Bernard: All three must be taken together. Only one or two would have been insufficient.
For instance, Cadam had brilliant software developers and sales people from IBM, but poor product management, so they missed 3D.
[Catia is short for “Computer-Aided Three-dimensional Interactive Application” while Cadam is short for “Computer-Augmented Drafting And Manufacturing.”]
[Independently-developed] ComputerVision had brilliant software developers but poor product management. By developing their own hardware, they missed the standardization of hardware, and had no sales force as strong as the one from IBM.
[Independently-developed] Matra Datavision lacked a sales force as strong as IBM’s.
They all disappeared after being acquired by other companies.
Levin: There is a well-known picture of a Catia demonstration being given to Marcel Dassault. Was this episode important to further business development? Please share the impressions you had from this demonstration.
Bernard: This episode was important and at this time probably key to our future.
Marcel Dassault was the extremely respected founder of Dassault Aviation, and the inventor of the new generation of fighters, the Mirage -- quite an important achievement during the Cold War.
At this time, Dassault Aviation was trying to extend its business to commercial airplanes with the Mercure, and so compete with the emerging Airbus conglomerate. He was an engineer, even more than a businessman, therefore he asked for a demonstration of Catia, because he was told that it was such an innovation that it would replace the drawing board for the design of airplanes. This really was his intent during the demonstration: “Show me how you design a fuselage!” Then, as illustrated in the picture, “Let me do it myself!”
In summary, Marcel Dassault wanted to be convinced that Catia was a tool to design and build Dassault’s airplanes in the future. He was 90 years old, and therefore probably not interested in Catia as a new business.
Levin: How did you come to the decision to market Catia externally? Was there by this time a lot of CAD use at Dassault Aviation?
Bernard: At this time, in 1980, CAD use at Dassault Aviation was quite high, even at such an early period. More than a hundred 2D Cadam systems had been installed since 1975, and a few Catia systems were installed for the 3D external shape definitions of the airplanes.
An interface between Cadam and Catia had been developed to transfer, for instance, 2D sections from Catia to Cadam as input for the design of wing ribs by Cadam. But it was already obvious that the use of Catia would be extended and so progressively replace Cadam within a few years. This was due to the development of 2D functions in Catia, and the installation of more powerful computers/PCs to extend 3D to mechanical parts design, based on innovative 3D processes being implemented in the Dassault Aviation design office.
The decision to market Catia was due to several reasons. Firstly, the French government was interested in helping Dassault Aviation make such decision. Secondly, Lougheed was interested in a partnership to integrate Catia and Cadam. Thirdly, IBM was a candidate to sell Catia, in addition to Cadam. It took a few months in early 1981 to make the decision on the third option.
And who could believe that when we created Dassault Systemes in 1981 with my team of 20 people, that 40 years later Dassault Systemes would be much bigger (20,000 employees) than Dassault Aviation?
Next week: Part ii
[This article first appeared in isicad, and is reprinted with permission. The interview has been shortened from its initial form.]
And in Other News
vdR Group and Sinequa integrated Sinequa’s Intelligent Search platform with vdR Group’s CADnection for search-based applications. data is extracted, enhanced, and then passed to the Sinequa Intelligent Search Platform. Sinequa lets engineers and managers to access content regardless of format all in one place. Visual representations of CAD models are produced for 2D and 3D viewing. sinequa.com
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From CADLine we hear they are hosting an online expo focusing on ARCHLine with 15 presentations and ten languages during 24-26 March. More info here, in case you want to take part: archlinexp.com/events
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3D Systems ceo Jeffery Graves made this comment during its Q4 2020 earnings call: “3D Systems technology provides over half a million production parts every day, 365 days a year, which is more than the rest of the industry combined.” You can read more at Deelip Menezes blog deelip.com/3d-printing-half-a-million-parts-a-day
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I was saddened to learn of the death of Bruce Lowell Jenkins Jr, who passed away in December 2020 at age 61. He was a genuinely nice guy, who took an interest in other people. Another editor said of him, “He was an interesting character and always deeply thoughtful. Very sharp mind.”
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Here are some of the posts that appeared recently on my WorldCAD Access blog:
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CAD for ChromeOS is Possible in 2021: more popular than MacOS
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I never bought the ZX81: $99 proved too expensive
You can subscribe to the WorldCAD Access blog’s RSS feed through Feed Burner at feeds.feedburner.com/WorldcadAccess.
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